How do you think history would have changed if the Germans took Moscow in 1941?

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otis campbell Profile
otis campbell answered

The usa would still win. We would nuke germany. But russia would be a blood bath

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Didge Doo
Didge Doo commented
I was thinking the same thing, Rooster. They were doing the research but (in spite of the claims of the link in my article) probably hadn't managed to make an operational device.
KB Baldwin
KB Baldwin commented
Probably would happened that way if they hadn't chased all the Jews out of the country.
Didge Doo
Didge Doo commented
That may have been his greatest mistake, KB. It put a considerable dent in Germany's brain power.
KB Baldwin Profile
KB Baldwin answered

I don't think taking Moscow would have made a difference. Unless the Russians LET them have it. By the end of that battle, the German troops were worn out, demoralized, short of everything except dead comrades and facing a Russian Winter. Also, by then, the Russians had ramped up their war production while the Germans had an incredibly long and fragile supply line. .  I

Didge Doo Profile
Didge Doo answered

If the battle for Moscow proved to be as deadly as the siege of Leningrad it may have been a pyrrhic victory and could have actually weakened Germany to the point where they were unable to effectively hold off the Allied forces in Europe and the Mediterranean countries.

But if Moscow's fall meant that Russia capitulated, Operation Barbarossa would have succeeded before Japan forced the US into the war and the Wehrmacht may well have proved unstoppable.

Of course, because of the economic pressure of the time, Japan may still have attacked Pearl Harbor but may not have had Germany's approval at a time when Hitler was on the brink of establishing his Third Reich in reality. (I doubt that Japan would have been willing to go it alone against the US, though that isn't by any means certain.)

Germany was also doing research into nuclear weapons and, with the Allies defeated may well have achieved it before the US.)

And another small outcome: Finland, who declared war on Russia in 1941, wouldn't have lost their mineral-rich eastern territories and would be far wealthier than they are today.

You sure ask some interesting questions, Rooster.

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Maurice Korvo
Maurice Korvo commented
But if you do overrun Moscow, will Russia give up :) (guess we will have to wait till you finish your game to find out)
Rooster Cogburn
Rooster Cogburn commented
That's what I'm wondering too ! Is Stalin still in Moscow ? That will make a difference.
Didge Doo
Didge Doo commented
On another subject altogether...
In 1942 when I was five years old and attending what we called "infants school" in Oz -- that is, Kindy, Year 1 and Year 2 -- my father, a committed trade unionist, gave me a Joe Stalin badge to wear. I loved that badge and wore it proudly but one day it disappeared and my parents told me I must have lost it. Of course, what really happened was that they realised that Uncle Joe wasn't exactly the kind of person they should be lauding in public.

Dad was never a commo (though I doubt if he'd have survived the McCarthy years in the US) but he was a keen trade unionist.
Virginia Lou Profile
Virginia Lou answered

Dear Rooster,

I don't know if my answer will be relevant to your game project...and I don't have the historical knowledge of your other answerers...

But I read a fascinating biography of Eva Braun once, and apparently Hitler had something of a god-complex...he believed supernatural powers were with him and he could not lose.

So he made bad decisions, and what really defeated the German invasion of Russia was the Russian winter! As it did Napoleon, when he tried the same thing.

* * *

So; if we speculate Germany taking Moscow, that means Hitler was actually sane and would make better decisions elsewhere too...and then really, Germany could very possibly have won WWII! So for your game, the scenario very well could be George Orwell's book 1984, or Arthur Koestler's classic DARKNESS AT NOON.

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Virginia Lou
Virginia Lou commented
Okay Dozy, just reading your description I did SEE it...literally saw as I read...not the clutch of horror at the pit of my stomach, I think because I am old and know too much that can happen...I am familiar with the horrors of what we can do to each other humankind...

But enough heartstrings that I still visualize, I SEE the images, exceedingly clear, as if I were there.
Didge Doo
Didge Doo commented
Just heading out but a piece of good news before I go. Ray Dart is back. It's gonna be a good week. :)
Virginia Lou
Virginia Lou commented
HURRAH

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